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	<title>Comments on: The tastemaker</title>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Alas, I missed the &quot;What Makes a Good Game&quot; event --- but I think I&#039;m glad. Here&#039;s Yahtzee&#039;s wrap-up:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sunday&#039;s talk was... interesting, in some ways. I enjoyed verbally sparring with my two peers, Jason Hill of the Age and Bajo of Good Game. I sort of underestimated my own popularity, though, and the embarrassment factor came in when I realised that 99% of the audience consisted of the weird fanbase I drag around that corrupts everything it touches.

The event was run by some really very nice people who didn&#039;t deserve the mass outbreak of retardation that was visited upon them. Really, guys, I know it was frustrating that only a third of you could fit in the audience space, but what was with all the banging on the glass and yelling and generally being a bunch of titwhistles? What Soviet gulag did you grow up in where that&#039;s an appropriate way to behave?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, I missed the &#8220;What Makes a Good Game&#8221; event &#8212; but I think I&#8217;m glad. Here&#8217;s Yahtzee&#8217;s wrap-up:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sunday&#8217;s talk was&#8230; interesting, in some ways. I enjoyed verbally sparring with my two peers, Jason Hill of the Age and Bajo of Good Game. I sort of underestimated my own popularity, though, and the embarrassment factor came in when I realised that 99% of the audience consisted of the weird fanbase I drag around that corrupts everything it touches.</p>
<p>The event was run by some really very nice people who didn&#8217;t deserve the mass outbreak of retardation that was visited upon them. Really, guys, I know it was frustrating that only a third of you could fit in the audience space, but what was with all the banging on the glass and yelling and generally being a bunch of titwhistles? What Soviet gulag did you grow up in where that&#8217;s an appropriate way to behave?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yikes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-117</guid>
		<description>Well, another thing about Zero Punctuation is that the &quot;review&quot; aspect takes a back seat to the comedy. Yahtzee freely admits that he&#039;ll criticize a game he likes because it&#039;s more entertaining that way. The issue of numeric scores is a whole other can of worms, but in the context of ZP, there&#039;s really no way for them to be meaningful.

On the other hand, Yahtzee&#039;s dismantling of pretty much every game he comes across makes it that much more noteworthy when he really enjoys something. While I would never avoid a game because he criticized it, I would definitely buy a game basd on his recommendation (I&#039;m looking forward to trying No More Heroes, for example). That&#039;s something else I can&#039;t say about any other games &quot;reviewer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, another thing about Zero Punctuation is that the &#8220;review&#8221; aspect takes a back seat to the comedy. Yahtzee freely admits that he&#8217;ll criticize a game he likes because it&#8217;s more entertaining that way. The issue of numeric scores is a whole other can of worms, but in the context of ZP, there&#8217;s really no way for them to be meaningful.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Yahtzee&#8217;s dismantling of pretty much every game he comes across makes it that much more noteworthy when he really enjoys something. While I would never avoid a game because he criticized it, I would definitely buy a game basd on his recommendation (I&#8217;m looking forward to trying No More Heroes, for example). That&#8217;s something else I can&#8217;t say about any other games &#8220;reviewer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-116</guid>
		<description>That Metacritic observation is a good one, Dan.

I&#039;d say one of the reasons Yahtzee has been successful is that you can&#039;t boil his reviews down to a 7.0 or an 8.5. There are plenty of interesting reviewers --- people with real insight and who know how to put a sentence and a paragraph and an essay together --- but as soon as they give a numeric score they allow people to avoid engaging with the content of the review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Metacritic observation is a good one, Dan.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say one of the reasons Yahtzee has been successful is that you can&#8217;t boil his reviews down to a 7.0 or an 8.5. There are plenty of interesting reviewers &#8212; people with real insight and who know how to put a sentence and a paragraph and an essay together &#8212; but as soon as they give a numeric score they allow people to avoid engaging with the content of the review.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Matthew: I have to agree with Robert here -- even though it&#039;s ostensibly comedic, I see a lot of theoretical underpinnings to Zero Punctuation&#039;s reviews (and Tycho&#039;s posts at Penny Arcade). I&#039;ll allow that it requires a broader definition of &quot;critic&quot; -- one that would include, say, George Carlin as a social critic. But I don&#039;t think ZP is so easily dismissed.

I can only speak definitively for myself, but Yahtzee has absolutely influenced both how I think about games and my perception of their importance (though you&#039;re right that he probably has no effect on sales). If you read the comment threads for his videos at The Escapist, I think you&#039;ll find that the same is true for other viewers. As a random example, his video lamenting the &quot;safeness&quot; of Uncharted: Drake&#039;s Fortune informed my thinking about Twilight Princess in relation to Ocarina of Time.

Another thing I&#039;ve been thinking about is how people actually &lt;em&gt;anticipate&lt;/em&gt; Yahtzee&#039;s reviews -- they email him, solicit his opinion on specific games, and look forward to each week&#039;s review. Who else in the industry is like that? Most reviewers are interchangable; Metacritic collates their scores, and we assess their opinions in aggregate. Yahtzee bucks that trend. He&#039;s one of the few voices in video games that people really pay attention to, and I think he has important things to say underneath his trademark vitriol. That&#039;s why I think of him as a tastemaker.

Robert, I&#039;d love to hear how that talk goes, if you end up attending. Thanks to both of you for your comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew: I have to agree with Robert here &#8212; even though it&#8217;s ostensibly comedic, I see a lot of theoretical underpinnings to Zero Punctuation&#8217;s reviews (and Tycho&#8217;s posts at Penny Arcade). I&#8217;ll allow that it requires a broader definition of &#8220;critic&#8221; &#8212; one that would include, say, George Carlin as a social critic. But I don&#8217;t think ZP is so easily dismissed.</p>
<p>I can only speak definitively for myself, but Yahtzee has absolutely influenced both how I think about games and my perception of their importance (though you&#8217;re right that he probably has no effect on sales). If you read the comment threads for his videos at The Escapist, I think you&#8217;ll find that the same is true for other viewers. As a random example, his video lamenting the &#8220;safeness&#8221; of Uncharted: Drake&#8217;s Fortune informed my thinking about Twilight Princess in relation to Ocarina of Time.</p>
<p>Another thing I&#8217;ve been thinking about is how people actually <em>anticipate</em> Yahtzee&#8217;s reviews &#8212; they email him, solicit his opinion on specific games, and look forward to each week&#8217;s review. Who else in the industry is like that? Most reviewers are interchangable; Metacritic collates their scores, and we assess their opinions in aggregate. Yahtzee bucks that trend. He&#8217;s one of the few voices in video games that people really pay attention to, and I think he has important things to say underneath his trademark vitriol. That&#8217;s why I think of him as a tastemaker.</p>
<p>Robert, I&#8217;d love to hear how that talk goes, if you end up attending. Thanks to both of you for your comments!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-114</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t read Penny Arcade, so I can&#039;t talk about that, but Zero Punctuation is definitely criticism and Yahtzee is definitely a critic. I&#039;m surprised that you can&#039;t see the theory in his game reviews. Sure, it&#039;s wrapped up in a comedy package, but it&#039;s there. And that&#039;s not to mention his magazine work.

I&#039;m going to try to see Yahtzee&#039;s talk at the Game On exhibition in Melbourne in mid-May:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What&#039;s a Good Game?&lt;/strong&gt;

How does one rate a good game? Leading game reviewers Steven O&#039;Donnel (Bajo), Jason Hill (&lt;em&gt;The Age&lt;/em&gt;) and Yahtzee Croshaw (&lt;em&gt;Hyper&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;PC Gamer&lt;/em&gt;) argue the finer points of game reviewing, and offer some insight into the best and worst moments of playing games for a living.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t read Penny Arcade, so I can&#8217;t talk about that, but Zero Punctuation is definitely criticism and Yahtzee is definitely a critic. I&#8217;m surprised that you can&#8217;t see the theory in his game reviews. Sure, it&#8217;s wrapped up in a comedy package, but it&#8217;s there. And that&#8217;s not to mention his magazine work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to try to see Yahtzee&#8217;s talk at the Game On exhibition in Melbourne in mid-May:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>What&#8217;s a Good Game?</strong></p>
<p>How does one rate a good game? Leading game reviewers Steven O&#8217;Donnel (Bajo), Jason Hill (<em>The Age</em>) and Yahtzee Croshaw (<em>Hyper</em> and <em>PC Gamer</em>) argue the finer points of game reviewing, and offer some insight into the best and worst moments of playing games for a living.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/tastemaker/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think either Penny Arcade nor Zero Punctuation are really critics. I certainly haven’t detected any kind of theory from either about what might make a good or interesting game. And, for all their popularity, I don’t see them as tastemakers, either. Neither of their writings seem to affect sales that I can discern, nor have they shaped the way we think about games, nor have I seen either affect the general perception about if a work in question is major, important and seminal (which is what I see, maybe imagine, critics of other media doing). In my view, both are best understood as comedians– popular and funny comedians, but nothing close to real critics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think either Penny Arcade nor Zero Punctuation are really critics. I certainly haven’t detected any kind of theory from either about what might make a good or interesting game. And, for all their popularity, I don’t see them as tastemakers, either. Neither of their writings seem to affect sales that I can discern, nor have they shaped the way we think about games, nor have I seen either affect the general perception about if a work in question is major, important and seminal (which is what I see, maybe imagine, critics of other media doing). In my view, both are best understood as comedians– popular and funny comedians, but nothing close to real critics.</p>
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