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	<title>Comments on: The tastemaker</title>
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	<description>Intelligent discussion of video games</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-512&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-512</guid>
		<description>Alas, I missed the "What Makes a Good Game" event --- but I think I'm glad. Here's Yahtzee's wrap-up:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Sunday's talk was... interesting, in some ways. I enjoyed verbally sparring with my two peers, Jason Hill of the Age and Bajo of Good Game. I sort of underestimated my own popularity, though, and the embarrassment factor came in when I realised that 99% of the audience consisted of the weird fanbase I drag around that corrupts everything it touches.

The event was run by some really very nice people who didn't deserve the mass outbreak of retardation that was visited upon them. Really, guys, I know it was frustrating that only a third of you could fit in the audience space, but what was with all the banging on the glass and yelling and generally being a bunch of titwhistles? What Soviet gulag did you grow up in where that's an appropriate way to behave?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yikes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, I missed the &#8220;What Makes a Good Game&#8221; event &#8212; but I think I&#8217;m glad. Here&#8217;s Yahtzee&#8217;s wrap-up:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sunday&#8217;s talk was&#8230; interesting, in some ways. I enjoyed verbally sparring with my two peers, Jason Hill of the Age and Bajo of Good Game. I sort of underestimated my own popularity, though, and the embarrassment factor came in when I realised that 99% of the audience consisted of the weird fanbase I drag around that corrupts everything it touches.</p>
<p>The event was run by some really very nice people who didn&#8217;t deserve the mass outbreak of retardation that was visited upon them. Really, guys, I know it was frustrating that only a third of you could fit in the audience space, but what was with all the banging on the glass and yelling and generally being a bunch of titwhistles? What Soviet gulag did you grow up in where that&#8217;s an appropriate way to behave?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yikes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-196&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-196</guid>
		<description>Well, another thing about Zero Punctuation is that the "review" aspect takes a back seat to the comedy. Yahtzee freely admits that he'll criticize a game he likes because it's more entertaining that way. The issue of numeric scores is a whole other can of worms, but in the context of ZP, there's really no way for them to be meaningful.

On the other hand, Yahtzee's dismantling of pretty much every game he comes across makes it that much more noteworthy when he really enjoys something. While I would never avoid a game because he criticized it, I would definitely buy a game basd on his recommendation (I'm looking forward to trying No More Heroes, for example). That's something else I can't say about any other games "reviewer."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, another thing about Zero Punctuation is that the &#8220;review&#8221; aspect takes a back seat to the comedy. Yahtzee freely admits that he&#8217;ll criticize a game he likes because it&#8217;s more entertaining that way. The issue of numeric scores is a whole other can of worms, but in the context of ZP, there&#8217;s really no way for them to be meaningful.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Yahtzee&#8217;s dismantling of pretty much every game he comes across makes it that much more noteworthy when he really enjoys something. While I would never avoid a game because he criticized it, I would definitely buy a game basd on his recommendation (I&#8217;m looking forward to trying No More Heroes, for example). That&#8217;s something else I can&#8217;t say about any other games &#8220;reviewer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-195&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-195</guid>
		<description>That Metacritic observation is a good one, Dan.

I'd say one of the reasons Yahtzee has been successful is that you can't boil his reviews down to a 7.0 or an 8.5. There are plenty of interesting reviewers --- people with real insight and who know how to put a sentence and a paragraph and an essay together --- but as soon as they give a numeric score they allow people to avoid engaging with the content of the review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Metacritic observation is a good one, Dan.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say one of the reasons Yahtzee has been successful is that you can&#8217;t boil his reviews down to a 7.0 or an 8.5. There are plenty of interesting reviewers &#8212; people with real insight and who know how to put a sentence and a paragraph and an essay together &#8212; but as soon as they give a numeric score they allow people to avoid engaging with the content of the review.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-194&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-194</guid>
		<description>Matthew: I have to agree with Robert here -- even though it's ostensibly comedic, I see a lot of theoretical underpinnings to Zero Punctuation's reviews (and Tycho's posts at Penny Arcade). I'll allow that it requires a broader definition of "critic" -- one that would include, say, George Carlin as a social critic. But I don't think ZP is so easily dismissed.

I can only speak definitively for myself, but Yahtzee has absolutely influenced both how I think about games and my perception of their importance (though you're right that he probably has no effect on sales). If you read the comment threads for his videos at The Escapist, I think you'll find that the same is true for other viewers. As a random example, his video lamenting the "safeness" of Uncharted: Drake's Fortune informed my thinking about Twilight Princess in relation to Ocarina of Time.

Another thing I've been thinking about is how people actually &lt;em&gt;anticipate&lt;/em&gt; Yahtzee's reviews -- they email him, solicit his opinion on specific games, and look forward to each week's review. Who else in the industry is like that? Most reviewers are interchangable; Metacritic collates their scores, and we assess their opinions in aggregate. Yahtzee bucks that trend. He's one of the few voices in video games that people really pay attention to, and I think he has important things to say underneath his trademark vitriol. That's why I think of him as a tastemaker.

Robert, I'd love to hear how that talk goes, if you end up attending. Thanks to both of you for your comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew: I have to agree with Robert here &#8212; even though it&#8217;s ostensibly comedic, I see a lot of theoretical underpinnings to Zero Punctuation&#8217;s reviews (and Tycho&#8217;s posts at Penny Arcade). I&#8217;ll allow that it requires a broader definition of &#8220;critic&#8221; &#8212; one that would include, say, George Carlin as a social critic. But I don&#8217;t think ZP is so easily dismissed.</p>
<p>I can only speak definitively for myself, but Yahtzee has absolutely influenced both how I think about games and my perception of their importance (though you&#8217;re right that he probably has no effect on sales). If you read the comment threads for his videos at The Escapist, I think you&#8217;ll find that the same is true for other viewers. As a random example, his video lamenting the &#8220;safeness&#8221; of Uncharted: Drake&#8217;s Fortune informed my thinking about Twilight Princess in relation to Ocarina of Time.</p>
<p>Another thing I&#8217;ve been thinking about is how people actually <em>anticipate</em> Yahtzee&#8217;s reviews &#8212; they email him, solicit his opinion on specific games, and look forward to each week&#8217;s review. Who else in the industry is like that? Most reviewers are interchangable; Metacritic collates their scores, and we assess their opinions in aggregate. Yahtzee bucks that trend. He&#8217;s one of the few voices in video games that people really pay attention to, and I think he has important things to say underneath his trademark vitriol. That&#8217;s why I think of him as a tastemaker.</p>
<p>Robert, I&#8217;d love to hear how that talk goes, if you end up attending. Thanks to both of you for your comments!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-182&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-182</guid>
		<description>I don't read Penny Arcade, so I can't talk about that, but Zero Punctuation is definitely criticism and Yahtzee is definitely a critic. I'm surprised that you can't see the theory in his game reviews. Sure, it's wrapped up in a comedy package, but it's there. And that's not to mention his magazine work.

I'm going to try to see Yahtzee's talk at the Game On exhibition in Melbourne in mid-May:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;What's a Good Game?&lt;/strong&gt;

How does one rate a good game? Leading game reviewers Steven O'Donnel (Bajo), Jason Hill (&lt;em&gt;The Age&lt;/em&gt;) and Yahtzee Croshaw (&lt;em&gt;Hyper&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;PC Gamer&lt;/em&gt;) argue the finer points of game reviewing, and offer some insight into the best and worst moments of playing games for a living.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t read Penny Arcade, so I can&#8217;t talk about that, but Zero Punctuation is definitely criticism and Yahtzee is definitely a critic. I&#8217;m surprised that you can&#8217;t see the theory in his game reviews. Sure, it&#8217;s wrapped up in a comedy package, but it&#8217;s there. And that&#8217;s not to mention his magazine work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to try to see Yahtzee&#8217;s talk at the Game On exhibition in Melbourne in mid-May:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>What&#8217;s a Good Game?</strong></p>
<p>How does one rate a good game? Leading game reviewers Steven O&#8217;Donnel (Bajo), Jason Hill (<em>The Age</em>) and Yahtzee Croshaw (<em>Hyper</em> and <em>PC Gamer</em>) argue the finer points of game reviewing, and offer some insight into the best and worst moments of playing games for a living.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F04%2Ftastemaker%2F%23comment-179&amp;seed_title=The+tastemaker#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=73#comment-179</guid>
		<description>Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think either Penny Arcade nor Zero Punctuation are really critics. I certainly haven’t detected any kind of theory from either about what might make a good or interesting game. And, for all their popularity, I don’t see them as tastemakers, either. Neither of their writings seem to affect sales that I can discern, nor have they shaped the way we think about games, nor have I seen either affect the general perception about if a work in question is major, important and seminal (which is what I see, maybe imagine, critics of other media doing). In my view, both are best understood as comedians– popular and funny comedians, but nothing close to real critics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think either Penny Arcade nor Zero Punctuation are really critics. I certainly haven’t detected any kind of theory from either about what might make a good or interesting game. And, for all their popularity, I don’t see them as tastemakers, either. Neither of their writings seem to affect sales that I can discern, nor have they shaped the way we think about games, nor have I seen either affect the general perception about if a work in question is major, important and seminal (which is what I see, maybe imagine, critics of other media doing). In my view, both are best understood as comedians– popular and funny comedians, but nothing close to real critics.</p>
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