<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Music in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, part five</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/07/ocarina-music-5/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five</link>
	<description>Intelligent discussion of video games</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-940&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-940</guid>
		<description>Ooh, nice catch, Kyle -- I'll roll that in when I update these posts. Thanks for reading, and I'm glad you're enjoying the site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, nice catch, Kyle &#8212; I&#8217;ll roll that in when I update these posts. Thanks for reading, and I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re enjoying the site!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-935&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-935</guid>
		<description>Hey Dan,

I just read all five of your OoT posts after stumbling upon them on Google (I don't even remember what I was looking for), and they're great! I never realized how well-put-together those simple ocarina warp songs were. As another videogame/music enthusiast, I'm definitely looking forward to your next one about the Gerudo Valley theme, which is one of my favorites..

As a random/trivial side note, I think measure 5 of your Hyrule Castle Courtyard background and/or Zelda's Lullaby transcription (from Part 2) should be iii7 instead of IV. (You had the Bm7, so you probably just overlooked this.)

Anyway, keep 'em coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Dan,</p>
<p>I just read all five of your OoT posts after stumbling upon them on Google (I don&#8217;t even remember what I was looking for), and they&#8217;re great! I never realized how well-put-together those simple ocarina warp songs were. As another videogame/music enthusiast, I&#8217;m definitely looking forward to your next one about the Gerudo Valley theme, which is one of my favorites..</p>
<p>As a random/trivial side note, I think measure 5 of your Hyrule Castle Courtyard background and/or Zelda&#8217;s Lullaby transcription (from Part 2) should be iii7 instead of IV. (You had the Bm7, so you probably just overlooked this.)</p>
<p>Anyway, keep &#8216;em coming!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-756&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-756</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 04:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-756</guid>
		<description>Peter: You're quite right about &lt;strike&gt;ii-I&lt;/strike&gt; ii-V (whoops -- ed.) being the more common progression, but there's a long tradition of popular music ignoring established harmonic conventions; an incessant focus on major chords -- especially I, IV, and V -- is particularly characteristic.

I feel your pain regarding the guitar -- or rather, I felt it, as now I don't have quite so much of a problem. It does get better eventually!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter: You&#8217;re quite right about <strike>ii-I</strike> ii-V (whoops &#8212; ed.) being the more common progression, but there&#8217;s a long tradition of popular music ignoring established harmonic conventions; an incessant focus on major chords &#8212; especially I, IV, and V &#8212; is particularly characteristic.</p>
<p>I feel your pain regarding the guitar &#8212; or rather, I felt it, as now I don&#8217;t have quite so much of a problem. It does get better eventually!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-753&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-753</guid>
		<description>I'm not a guitarist, but whenever I pick up a guitar to try to learn some chords, it feels like the tendons are tearing out of my wrist. So that's the basis for my association of awkward guitar chords with intense physical pain. Apparently it's different for you as a guitarist!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a guitarist, but whenever I pick up a guitar to try to learn some chords, it feels like the tendons are tearing out of my wrist. So that&#8217;s the basis for my association of awkward guitar chords with intense physical pain. Apparently it&#8217;s different for you as a guitarist!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Abraham</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-751&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-751</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Abraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-751</guid>
		<description>Pain on the PERFORMER? As in, deliberately?

Wow... gotta think about that one for a bit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pain on the PERFORMER? As in, deliberately?</p>
<p>Wow&#8230; gotta think about that one for a bit&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-750&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-750</guid>
		<description>Well, you're right -- I just looked, and the Wikipedia article describes ii as a substitution for IV. Still, that seems backward to me: ii-V-I has been taught as a cadential archetype at least since Rameau, and continues to be in jazz theory, so I'm used to thinking of it as more common. Either way, your analysis is really interesting.

Years ago, I heard a conference paper on the piano music of Galina Ustvolskaya, the main point of which was that her music inflicts pain on the performer. Maybe there's a parallel here? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;re right &#8212; I just looked, and the Wikipedia article describes ii as a substitution for IV. Still, that seems backward to me: ii-V-I has been taught as a cadential archetype at least since Rameau, and continues to be in jazz theory, so I&#8217;m used to thinking of it as more common. Either way, your analysis is really interesting.</p>
<p>Years ago, I heard a conference paper on the piano music of Galina Ustvolskaya, the main point of which was that her music inflicts pain on the performer. Maybe there&#8217;s a parallel here? :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-748&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-748</guid>
		<description>Peter: I wouldn't go so far as to call the guitar part impossible; just occasionally awkward. It's certainly playable, but it's just strange enough that I feel confident saying it wasn't written by/for a guitarist.

Regardless, your point about video games concealing impossibility is well taken, though. Once you've adapted to a game's rules, it's hard to bring your mind back out -- there's nothing more disappointing than watching the X Games after playing &lt;em&gt;Tony Hawk's Pro Skater&lt;/em&gt;. :-)

Regarding the progression: Kakariko Village is indeed I-vi-ii-V (I have the exact chord qualities listed underneath each system in the transcription), but many consider that a variation of the more common doo-wop progression I-vi-IV-V. They're effectively the same changes, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter: I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to call the guitar part impossible; just occasionally awkward. It&#8217;s certainly playable, but it&#8217;s just strange enough that I feel confident saying it wasn&#8217;t written by/for a guitarist.</p>
<p>Regardless, your point about video games concealing impossibility is well taken, though. Once you&#8217;ve adapted to a game&#8217;s rules, it&#8217;s hard to bring your mind back out &#8212; there&#8217;s nothing more disappointing than watching the X Games after playing <em>Tony Hawk&#8217;s Pro Skater</em>. :-)</p>
<p>Regarding the progression: Kakariko Village is indeed I-vi-ii-V (I have the exact chord qualities listed underneath each system in the transcription), but many consider that a variation of the more common doo-wop progression I-vi-IV-V. They&#8217;re effectively the same changes, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-747&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-747</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-747</guid>
		<description>Wow! What a great point. The hidden impossibility of the guitar writing echoes other ways in which video games conceal impossibility. When Link falls 30 feet and rolls unharmed back onto his feet, it looks relatively natural. It's only when you imagine yourself in his place that you realize how impossible it is. (Even more so for a game like Prince of Persia!) Likewise, the music sounds natural until you try to imagine playing it on a real guitar.

Well, maybe that's a stretch!

P.S. Wouldn't the progression be I-vi-&lt;strong&gt;ii&lt;/strong&gt;-V?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! What a great point. The hidden impossibility of the guitar writing echoes other ways in which video games conceal impossibility. When Link falls 30 feet and rolls unharmed back onto his feet, it looks relatively natural. It&#8217;s only when you imagine yourself in his place that you realize how impossible it is. (Even more so for a game like Prince of Persia!) Likewise, the music sounds natural until you try to imagine playing it on a real guitar.</p>
<p>Well, maybe that&#8217;s a stretch!</p>
<p>P.S. Wouldn&#8217;t the progression be I-vi-<strong>ii</strong>-V?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Bruno</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-746&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-746</guid>
		<description>Sounds like we're on the same page, Ben. I'm glad the post made sense to you, as it was a little bit guitar-centric. Not like inaccessibility has ever stopped me before, of course.

I'm still unsure to what extent the arrangement was influenced by the nature of the guitar; the arpeggios were largely the same when it was a string orchestra patch in &lt;em&gt;A Link to the Past&lt;/em&gt;, so it's certainly possible that it's just a coincidence.

A better test would be the Gerudo Valley theme, since that also uses &lt;em&gt;Ocarina&lt;/em&gt;'s guitar patch but is a newly composed piece. I'll be looking at that one next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like we&#8217;re on the same page, Ben. I&#8217;m glad the post made sense to you, as it was a little bit guitar-centric. Not like inaccessibility has ever stopped me before, of course.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still unsure to what extent the arrangement was influenced by the nature of the guitar; the arpeggios were largely the same when it was a string orchestra patch in <em>A Link to the Past</em>, so it&#8217;s certainly possible that it&#8217;s just a coincidence.</p>
<p>A better test would be the Gerudo Valley theme, since that also uses <em>Ocarina</em>&#8217;s guitar patch but is a newly composed piece. I&#8217;ll be looking at that one next.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Abraham</title>
		<link>http://cruiseelroy.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fcruiseelroy.net%2F2008%2F07%2Focarina-music-5%2F%23comment-745&amp;seed_title=Music+in+The+Legend+of+Zelda%3A+Ocarina+of+Time%2C+part+five/comment-page-1/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Abraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cruiseelroy.net/?p=189#comment-745</guid>
		<description>Lovely analysis, as per usual. Very elegant. ;-)

It is an interesting issue isn't it - non instrumentalists composing for synthesised instruments and not needing to make it 'physically' playable in the normal 'human' sense. I once read a short section of a book about drum sequencers, and the authors point was basically that it's up to the composer to decide if they want to be 'authentic' to simulating a drum performance or whether they want to compose for synthetic drum performance - the proverbial drummer with seven arms, as it were.

I personally have very little 'authentic' musicianship, with all my skills and training based in the realm of the digital, so I can totally appreciate and understand Kondo's motivation here. I also appreciate the fact that he probably tried to give it some ring of authentic performance - as you said he splits the bass notes out form the rest of the chord, which seems like a deliberate choice probably motivated by knowledge of real world guitars and guitar playing. It is another Koji Kondo piece isn't it?

His (and others more generally) application of the knowledge of how guitars are played seems to pay off because unless you are one you'd probably not pick up on the impossible difficulty of some of the chord shapes! (The crafty devil snuck it by me, after all) But I do think that a larger number of people would likely pick up on it sounding 'wrong' if he didn't do the bass/chord spreading. Interesting... 

Again, great post - and thanks for getting me thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely analysis, as per usual. Very elegant. ;-)</p>
<p>It is an interesting issue isn&#8217;t it - non instrumentalists composing for synthesised instruments and not needing to make it &#8216;physically&#8217; playable in the normal &#8216;human&#8217; sense. I once read a short section of a book about drum sequencers, and the authors point was basically that it&#8217;s up to the composer to decide if they want to be &#8216;authentic&#8217; to simulating a drum performance or whether they want to compose for synthetic drum performance - the proverbial drummer with seven arms, as it were.</p>
<p>I personally have very little &#8216;authentic&#8217; musicianship, with all my skills and training based in the realm of the digital, so I can totally appreciate and understand Kondo&#8217;s motivation here. I also appreciate the fact that he probably tried to give it some ring of authentic performance - as you said he splits the bass notes out form the rest of the chord, which seems like a deliberate choice probably motivated by knowledge of real world guitars and guitar playing. It is another Koji Kondo piece isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>His (and others more generally) application of the knowledge of how guitars are played seems to pay off because unless you are one you&#8217;d probably not pick up on the impossible difficulty of some of the chord shapes! (The crafty devil snuck it by me, after all) But I do think that a larger number of people would likely pick up on it sounding &#8216;wrong&#8217; if he didn&#8217;t do the bass/chord spreading. Interesting&#8230; </p>
<p>Again, great post - and thanks for getting me thinking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
